SwimSwam’s editor Braden Keith brought me the following hypothetical: what would happen in a dual meet of the Stanford women vs every other team in the NCAA combined into one team. The answer is: Stanford would lose. The surprising part, is that they wouldn’t get crushed.
I scored out a dual meet using collegiate best times, swimming only, no relays, 3 individual events per swimmer (2 swimmers had to have events cut because they had 4 times fast enough to be in this super meet, Katie Ledecky, and Louise Hansson of USC). The score came to Not Stanford 134.5 Stanford 112.5. Stanford has an astonishing 8 swimmers that score more than the default minimum points. That is, there are no more than 2 Not Stanford swimmers with times better than their best time. Simone Manuel, Katie Ledecky, Ella Eastin, Janet Hu, Katie Drabot, Ally Howe, Brooke Forde, and Allie Szekely all pull this off in at least one event.
And yes, Simone Manuel is coming off an injury, so perhaps she can’t go quite those times right now (or perhaps she can, we’ll see), but that’s not the point. The point is just how ridiculous a pool of talent Stanford has accumulated. If we try the same experiment with men’s dynasty Texas, they get double up 168-79. Stanford is an elite breaststroker from winning.
Here are the results with some methodology notes below.
Results
Event | Name | Time | School | Meet | Points |
50 Freestyle | Manuel, Simone | 21.17 | Stanford | 2017 NCAA DI Womens | 9 |
Li, Liz | 21.29 | Ohio St | 2017 NCAA DI Womens | 4 | |
Weitzeil, Abbey | 21.4 | California | 2017 WOMENS PAC-12 SWIMMING CH | 3 | |
Baldwin, Caroline | 21.48 | UNC | 2017 Tennessee Invitational | 2 | |
Engel, Lindsey | 22.57 | Stanford | 2015 NCAA D1 Women’s | 1 | |
100 Freestyle | Manuel, Simone | 45.56 | Stanford | 2017 NCAA DI Womens | 9 |
Comerford, Mallory | 46.35 | Louisville | 2017 NCAA DI Womens | 4 | |
Weitzeil, Abbey | 46.95 | California | UGA Fall Invitational 2017 | 3 | |
Hansson, Louise | 47.03 | Southern Cali | 2017 WOMENS PAC-12 SWIMMING CH | 2 | |
Pitzer, Lauren | 48.6 | Stanford | Art Adamson Invitational Worki | 1 | |
200 Freestyle | Comerford, Mallory | 1:40.36 | Louisville | 2017 NCAA DI Womens | 6.5 |
Ledecky, Katie | 1:40.36 | Stanford | 2017 NCAA DI Womens | 6.5 | |
Manuel, Simone | 1:40.37 | Stanford | 2017 WOMENS PAC-12 SWIMMING CH | 3 | |
Haughey, Siobhan Bernadette | 1:41.21 | Michigan | 2017 NCAA DI Womens | 2 | |
Hansson, Louise | 1:42.10 | Southern Cali | 2017 WOMENS PAC-12 SWIMMING CH | 1 | |
500 Freestyle | Ledecky, Katie | 4:24.06 | Stanford | 2017 NCAA DI Womens | 9 |
Ryan, G | 4:34.28 | Michigan | UGA Fall Invitational 2016 | 4 | |
Bi, Rose | 4:34.63 | Michigan | UGA Fall Invitational 2016 | 3 | |
Evans, Joanna | 4:35.05 | Texas | Texas Hall of Fame Swimming In | 2 | |
Drabot, Katie | 4:35.69 | Stanford | 2017 WOMENS PAC-12 SWIMMING CH | 1 | |
1650 Freestyle | Ledecky, Katie | 15:03.31 | Stanford | Art Adamson Invitational Worki | 9 |
Ryan, G | 15:44.93 | Michigan | 2017 Womens B1G Championships | 4 | |
Bi, Rose | 15:45.26 | Michigan | 2016 NCAA DI Womens | 3 | |
Moore, Hannah | 15:47.20 | NC State | 2016 NCAA DI Womens | 2 | |
Byrnes, Megan | 15:47.62 | Stanford | 2017 WOMENS PAC-12 SWIMMING CH | 1 | |
100 Butterfly | Brown, Erika | 50.33 | Tennessee | 2017 Tennessee Invitational | 9 |
Hu, Janet | 50.38 | Stanford | 2017 WOMENS PAC-12 SWIMMING CH | 4 | |
Thomas, Noemie | 50.44 | California | 2017 WOMENS PAC-12 SWIMMING CH | 3 | |
Gastaldello, Beryl | 50.87 | Texas A&M | 2015 SEC Swimming & Diving Cha | 2 | |
Engel, Lindsey | 51.77 | Stanford | 2017 WOMENS PAC-12 SWIMMING CH | 1 | |
200 Butterfly | Eastin, Ella | 1:51.04 | Stanford | 2016 NCAA DI Womens | 9 |
Drabot, Katie | 1:51.74 | Stanford | Art Adamson Invitational Worki | 4 | |
McLaughlin, Katie | 1:52.37 | California | 2017 NCAA DI Womens | 3 | |
Hansson, Louise | 1:52.66 | Southern Cali | Texas Hall of Fame Swimming In | 2 | |
Wright, Maddie | 1:52.67 | Southern Cali | 2017 WOMENS PAC-12 SWIMMING CH | 1 | |
100 Breastroke | King, Lilly | 56.3 | Indiana | 2017 Womens B1G Championships | 9 |
Kozelsky, Lindsey | 58.03 | Minnesota | 2017 NCAA DI Womens | 4 | |
Tucker, Miranda | 58.1 | Indiana/Michigan | 2016 NCAA DI Womens | 3 | |
Williams, Kim | 1:00.05 | Stanford | 2017 WOMENS PAC-12 SWIMMING CH | 2 | |
Zhao, Grace | 1:00.72 | Stanford | USC vs Stanford (Women) | 1 | |
200 Breastroke | King, Lilly | 2:03.18 | Indiana | 2017 NCAA DI Womens | 9 |
Pickrem, Sydney | 2:05.23 | Texas A&M | 2017 NCAA DI Womens | 4 | |
Scott, Riley | 2:06.20 | Southern Cali | 2017 WOMENS PAC-12 SWIMMING CH | 3 | |
Williams, Kim | 2:08.84 | Stanford | 2017 NCAA DI Womens | 2 | |
Forde, Brooke | 2:09.50 | Stanford | Art Adamson Invitational Worki | 1 | |
100 Backstroke | Howe, Ally | 49.69 | Stanford | 2017 WOMENS PAC-12 SWIMMING CH | 9 |
Baker, Kathleen | 49.8 | California | 2017 NCAA DI Womens | 4 | |
Hu, Janet | 50.29 | Stanford | 2017 WOMENS PAC-12 SWIMMING CH | 3 | |
Bilquist, Amy | 50.5 | California | 2016 WOMENS PAC-12 SWIMMING CH | 2 | |
Stevens, Hannah | 50.57 | Missouri | 2017 NCAA DI Womens | 1 | |
200 Backstroke | Baker, Kathleen | 1:48.33 | California | 2017 WOMENS PAC-12 SWIMMING CH | 9 |
Hu, Janet | 1:49.36 | Stanford | 2017 WOMENS PAC-12 SWIMMING CH | 4 | |
Seidt, Asia | 1:49.63 | Kentucky | 2017 NCAA DI Womens | 3 | |
Bilquist, Amy | 1:49.90 | California | 2016 WOMENS PAC-12 SWIMMING CH | 2 | |
Howe, Ally | 1:51.16 | Stanford | 2017 WOMENS PAC-12 SWIMMING CH | 1 | |
200 IM | Eastin, Ella | 1:51.65 | Stanford | 2016 NCAA DI Womens | 9 |
Baker, Kathleen | 1:51.69 | California | 2017 NCAA DI Womens | 4 | |
Pickrem, Sydney | 1:53.30 | Texas A&M | 2017 NCAA DI Womens | 3 | |
Small, Meghan | 1:53.31 | Tennessee | 2017 SEC Swimming & Diving Cha | 2 | |
Howe, Ally | 1:54.82 | Stanford | 2017 NCAA DI Womens | 1 | |
400 IM | Eastin, Ella | 3:57.57 | Stanford | 2017 NCAA DI Womens | 9 |
Pickrem, Sydney | 3:59.36 | Texas A&M | 2017 NCAA DI Womens | 4 | |
Galat, Bethany | 4:01.06 | Texas A&M | 2017 NCAA DI Womens | 3 | |
Forde, Brooke | 4:02.02 | Stanford | 2017 College Challange | 2 | |
Szekely, Allie | 4:02.34 | Stanford | 2017 WOMENS PAC-12 SWIMMING CH | 1 | |
Andison, Bailey | 4:03.09 | Denver | 2017 NCAA DI Womens |
Notes
- If we add in diving, this margin gets bigger. Stanford has an elite diver, but her best finish was 3rd on one board last year. Using both spring boards, diving comes to 30-8 for Not Stanford.
- I thought about including relays, but there wasn’t an obvious best solution of how to determine relay times. Aggregates from each team (Stanford and Not Stanford) were one possibility. In this format Stanford loses every relay by a country mile. Perhaps this is the truest solution given this premise, but it doesn’t accurately represent the type of competition that Stanford is actually facing in the real world. The individual events in this hypothetical are actually reasonable approximations of what their swimmers have to face. Another option was to use team’s best times from previous seasons, but this required the use of splits from seniors that have since graduated. The third option was to use relay times from this season. This is problematic as teams have treated their in season relays with varying degrees of seriousness (Stanford hasn’t even competed in an 800 free relay yet this season- there are no qualifying time for Pac 12’s).
- I didn’t include any times from outside NCAA competition. This means any freshmen with really fast high school times aren’t credited here. Sometimes elite freshmen don’t miss a beat entering college (Ledecky). Sometimes there’s an adjustment period (ex. Beata Nelson). Due to that volatility, I don’t mind saving myself some research and excluding them.
Hahaha I saw someone wish for this after the cali vs Stanford meet results…
So giddy to actually see swim swam follow through
Um does Stanford really place 2 swimmers on the top 5 in each event (and 3 in 400IM!). That’s honestly just ridiculous…
No. That’s a product of how dual meet scoring works. Each team gets three entries and the top 5 places are scored. Since the Not Stanford team only has three entries, Stanford athletes ranked outside the top 5 nationally can pick up 5th or sometimes 4th place points. Stanford actually has 4 people ranked in the top 6 in the 400 IM. I removed Ledecky to keep her within the 3 events per swimmer limit.
This should be done with Dean Farris vs the rest of the Ivy’s.
Or a team of Dean Ferrises VS the NCAA
An amazing matrix which demonstrates the lock Stanford currently has in Women’s NCAA Swimming. Wonder if ever we will see one team place 6 swimmers in the FINAL of an individual event as did the U of “Hook em Horns” Texas a few years ago? Man that was astounding. Coaches Meehan and Reese are two of the greatest.
Putting Meehan and Reese in the same category is ludicrous at this point in Meehan’s career
Of course, no one is going to beat Stanford as a team this year.
Except for Ledecky in the distance free and Lilly King in the breast, the individual events are up for grabs.
2fly looks pretty set on Eastin or Drabot
What place would they come in in the mens pac-12s?
Maybe Katie Ledecky could place in the 1650 free. Which would be amazing. But that’s about it.
Stanford has a real contender in every event except the breaststrokes. Anybody have data on the most event wins for a team?
Grace Zhao will be good
Most individual swimming event wins: women Florida 9 1988, men Indiana 8 1971
Run this again after the 2019 NCAAs. If we get enough support, maybe the NCAA will decide to run the national championship in this format. I’m sure Stanford wouldn’t mind either way.
Still can’t fathom how many top 20s won’t be making travel teams/ top 4 for a dual meet heat/ NCAAs or Pac 12s